Posted by Paisley Beebe in Tonight Live Show | 15 Comments
This Week on Tonight Live with Paisley Beebe, RedZone, Breedables, SonyaJevette Charisma!
This Sunday 6th March 6pm on Tonight Live With Paisley Beebe
The Interview you have all been waiting for!
GreenZone Speaks UP About RedZone
Exclusive Interview this Sunday!
Huge Privacy Security Hole in all Second Life viewers Through Media Play Buttons, Your Alts and I.P addresses revealed.
This Sunday I’ll be interviewing Azure Twine who is the english speaking representative from the GreenZone Team who created a HUD detection device to warn wearers about the security device RedZone, called GreenZone.
The security device RedZone developed by Second Life resident zFire Xue has been in the news these last few weeks because awareness of its privacy violation concerns has reached a zenith, particularly in the S.L Jira started by SmoothKitty Beverly on the 7th Feb 2011 (with 1622 votes at time of press) and on various blogs and message boards like SLUniverse (329 pages at last count!). However concern about RedZone goes right back to middle of last year on the Jira.
RedZone is a security device which tracks and stores I.P addresses of Avatars it scans when you land at the parcel where it is rezzed, it also lists, for the owner of the device, all alts associated with your I.P address, IF when scanned you have a Second Life browser media button active at the time, it then has the ability to show its owner ALL the Alts associated with that I.P address, whether you are at Starbucks or at home…. There is also a RedZone HUD which can also scan people without their consent anywhere on the grid, and show up ALL their associated alts also. There has been an absolute furor on the Second Life Jira over this, that it reached the No 2 spot on the status list, with a huge amount of posts…(keep scrolling…keep scrolling….)
RedZone owner zFire Xue, and his supporters, according to his posts on the Jira and on his website’s forum, claim that unless you have something to hide, why worry? Their supporters want security and keep in mind, RedZone is used by some extremely high profile residents, who feel that Linden Lab is NOT protecting them adequately from copybotting and greifing. The GreenZone group and other anti -RedZone detractors, don’t agree, claiming that they have an absolute right to privacy regardless. There are accusations of GreenZone HUD wearers and supporters being greifers, accusations of copybotting by Greenzone that led to the creation of the GreenZone HUD, and accusations of the RedZone HUD and the device being used to stalk and embarrass avatars being scanned by having their Alts outed. Sadly there are also stories of people being embarrassed into leaving Second Life completely, as a result of their alts being outed.
On Wednesday of this week, Soft Linden announced on the very looong….Second Life Jira that elements of the RedZone device that expose alternative accounts (Alts) were now deemed against the TOS, (Terms Of Service) (which had been recently updated by Linden Lab, it seems, to clear up the issue of alts being shared publicly) Soft Linden announced that Linden Lab had forcibly removed the RedZone Vendor from the SL Market place, and asked, that residents report any violation of privacy in regards to the logging and sharing of alternative (Alt) Second Life accounts. RedZone vendors however are still selling RedZone on the grid, (I saw one myself) and RedZone is still being used on the grid, (as I also witnessed), apparently it has been altered so that Alts cannot be seen, but alts can still be banned. So is it banned or not?
The hole in privacy security caused by the Media players in all Second Life browsers from which the RedZone device and others like it can access your I.P has not been plugged, and until it is…the security risk is still there, with people refusing to use the media buttons in SL at all now, until they can be sure that there is no longer a risk. zFire Xue in a recent post threatened to go “underground” or expose the I.P’s ect…on the web.
There is talk about viewers adding media streaming url alerts, and just turning off your media players, but just I believe turning off your media player to avoid being scanned is really not a great solution (IF in fact that does protect you…) and here’s why… I’ve been watching this issue with great concern for a number of reasons…As a person who fully supports streaming media in S.L and has a long and busy history of playing live music in SL and providing entertainment through our show here at Tonight Live, I’m very much concerned that not only are we all at risk of having even perfectly legitimate Alts exposed, but I’m also concerned about what this is doing to live and taped (DJ) music venues, and venues such as Tonight Live where we have screens up with our shows streamed. I’m hearing stories of people just grabbing music stream urls rather than using their media buttons, or just not going to venues for fear of being scanned, this is very worrying to me…
This Sunday I hope to clear up a LOT of rumours and get it all straight, and I know Azure wants to do the same. I’m keeping an eye on developments as they happen over this weekend, (the jira is still very active!) and will tailor the interview accordingly. I am also prepared to take questions from you in the audience and online during the broadcast on www.treet.tv/live to put to Azure. Also please put any questions you have for Azure in comments below and I will be sure to consider them.
Also on this Sundays show we also have a great interview with MenuBar Memorial from Watermoon Breeze who is our Resident Spotlight for this week, who has a suprising and innovative Breedable he is about to launch…Its AMAZING its, INCREDIBLE! and it has to BE SEEN TO BE BELIEVED Be prepared to be shocked and stunned!
Our Musician for this week is the wonderfull SonyaJevette Charisma! Sonya has only been on SL for about 4 months…but already she is packing out Sims because of her wonderfull R&B sound…If you like Joan Armatrading and Tracy Chapman, then you are going to Lurrvvvv Sonya! we are very exited to have such an amazing talent on our show.
As usual the show starts at 6pm slt at Sailors Cove, get there early for this one!
- See you Sunday 6pm slt at the Newly Located Studio at Sailors Cove, If you want to be in the audience, I suggest you get there at 5.30pm. The show is also as allways broadcast out to the Web at 6pm at www.treet.tv/live or on your home Treet.tv Screens on the live channel. And now also at http://tonightlivewithpaisleybeebe.com/watch-live/
- An overflow area is set up at our Event Partners Sailors Cove Theatre, with a screen and a Group joiner to chat online with other viewers.
- You can also join the online chat by joining the “Tonight Live withPaisley Beebe” group in Second Life, the group chat is ported over to the live website and Paisley watches the live chat during her interviews for questions to her guests.
- If you would like to know who is going to be on the show each week, join our subscribomatic placed at the studio, to unsubscribe just click the subscribomatic again. Anyone who can’t get in to the studio during the show, can watch the show live here http://treet.tv/live
- The show will then be uploaded to the Treet.Tv website and available on iTunes as a download.
- All our shows are now available on Flash Player which means cleaner crisper definition, and the ability to copy and paste the player on your own website
- You can now subscribe to the Tonight Live With Paisley Beebe Show Feed also from Treet.tv Just add this feed to your favourite RSS feed reader.
Trackbacks/Pingbacks
- The Privacy wars real victims « ladysakai - [...] I was talking to Paisley Beebe on Twitter today and I think it really dawned on us how many ...
- ZF Redzone, Disclosure of SecondLife Alts. - Page 381 - SLUniverse Forums - [...] Beebe is going to be interviewing Azure Twine of GreenZone on her talk show tonight (that is, Sunday, March ...
- Notes on: ZF Redzone, Disclosure of SecondLife Alts. - Page 2 - SLUniverse Forums - [...] Beebe is going to be interviewing Azure Twine of GreenZone on her talk show tonight (that is, Sunday, March ...
What about sims that use redzone currently? Will Linden Lab have redzone removed?
In regards to the threats from the redzone owner saying he would publish the information. Isn’t that illegal?
Yes Im wondering that also Tasha, and Im wondering about the HUDS…
They still scan and do everything else but revealing alts. That part was what was considered against the CS. The HUDs should have been disabled since that was their only purpose.
We won a battle but the war continues
It’s clear that the levels of FUD surrounding Redzone/Greenzone is high enough to justify less polite, more bovine terms, not helped by the affair peaking while the Linden Research blogs and forums were silenced by the changeover. Though the official silence is worrying: if Redzone is doing anything against the rules, might there be something else without the publicity, which, without an official announcement, nobody will AR?
Here in the EU, the term-of-art is Personal Data, which is maybe clearer than “privacy”. And, while an IP address (or a telephone number: both have to be freely passed around for things to work) isn’t automatically personal data, the official advice for anyone collecting them is to handle them as if they are. That is, follow the principles behind the law, which means a combination of good computer and software management, and a clear chain of responsibility.
You have a real-life name attached to you, easy to find. What worries me about this affair (and what made me start worrying about Emerald) is the people responsible hiding behind an SL name. If somebody wants to sell a security product (or any product) they can use an Alt linked to a real-life identity, and carry on capering nimbly, in-world, to the lascivious pleasings of a lute, with their private Alt. It’s what people are often advised to do.
Matching Alts goes way beyond stopping criminality.
Absolutely agree, and not only that, the effect this will have on media and music concerns me greatly. I’m personally finding out as much as I can, and I hope to adress this very broadly as you have pointed out.
Here is an IM sent to someone regarding this issue. I have X’d out the name to protect the tool-ish. Edited for language.
Quote:
“XXXX XXXXXXXX: Lol ask me if I care dear & grow up you think Redzone was a tool to invade your sad little life, just you wait & see what’s just been made dear. You’re going to flip a dam bucket of biscuits over this new tool it scan you & shows you ip in local chat lmao! N no its not made by Redzone but it is made by someone that as a alt scanning store, anyway ban me all you like I have never been to your Sims nor ever met you nor will ever likely to meet you, IM me one more time & ill have you up on stalking grounds ok. You don’t bring s**t from forums into the game ok, , get a f*****g grip Girl maybe go get some f*****g d**k or something ok. FINGER!!!
Let that sink in a little bit…here is the most telling part.
“just you wait & see what’s just been made dear. You’re going to flip a dam bucket of biscuits over this new tool it scan you & shows you ip in local chat lmao!”
It’s that mentality right there, that needs to be fixed. These people show a complete lack of common sense.
Another quote (para-phrased, can’t find the post to quote directly) from a user on the RZ forums when discussing the Media Filter going into Phoenix Viewer and the devs behind it. “Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should.”
99% of alt-detection advocates arguments, against the TPV devs especially, are totally self serving, and can usually be turned right around to them.
I read that also….wondering if it’s again thru the media spy hole…..sigh
I’m sure it is. And that’s why it’s still important that everybody hears what is going on. The hardest part is going to be teaching new folks, without scaring them away.
This will not go away in full, until LL finds some way to prevent “Joe Blow” across the grid from getting potentially sensitive information. And the question is going to be, can they do it and still maintain the desired direction for Second Life.
Hopefully, we as a community, can find the answers to these problems. I believe that this:
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24764
and this:
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6751
are important jira’s to watch also, as they deal with the direct “avatar to media” connection, if I’ve read them right.
On another note, will the people had their privacy invaded by this contraption be able to get together in a class action type lawsuit against zfire and/or the people who purchased and used this item to violate people’s information?
Why did linden lab wait so long to do anything against this? From what I understand the complaints against this item started long ago.
Tasha, I’d say they didn’t really look into it, and its might be really hard to fix…I’m actually surprised that this type of thing hasn’t been a huge issue before now, I mean how long have we had the media buttons? eh? certainly way before I started in 2006…This is, do we trust this guy zFire to do what he says he is doing…how many removals from the grid till he and his gadget are banned, how do we know really what this thing does…or is still doing? Im hope to get some good answers from Azure, who is part of the GreenZone team.
I’ve been reminded that a lot of the current uncertainty in linking an IP address to an individual vanishes once you switch to IPv6. Everyone and their dog, it sometimes seems, is using NAT to connect several computers to the same public IP address. That’s kept IPv4 usable, but the last block of IP addresses was allocated last month. The internet is full.
Once IPv6 finally takes over, we move from 32 bits to 128 bits, and nobody will need to do that sort of sharing. I’m not sure how the routing will work over something such as a wi-fi hotspot, but most of us will have a fixed, unique, IP address.
We need to sort things out now, before the fuzziness vanishes.
My main concern is that all the fuss about protecting from copybot and alts and the emotional arguments of both sides of the civil rights fence is obscuring the real issue that RZ is a tracking device with targeted advertising potential. (spam to you and me)
For instance if I visit a RZ shop/sim that sells primarily skins, and then say, 20 mins later visit another sim that also uses RZ and sells skins, then come tomorrow, it might be a good idea to send me some anonymous spam for some skins from a potential RZ advertising partner.
Maybe ill think it was something I generated last login, or just go anyway because i want skin, yet if someone came and asked to put a device in your shop so they can track people and spam them, I dont think many would agree.
Either way, I dont want to be tracked no matter how much of an ‘if youre innocent you have nothing to fear’ spin is put on it.
The fuss over alt-tracking and media streams has distracted people from the implications of another type of privacy invasion within SL
A network of scanners can log our names and positions to a third-party website, offering subscribers information on our location and company – in real time and over history.
http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussions/You-are-being-tracked-in-SL-by-third-parties-and-there-is/td-p/515731
This sort of tracking does no require streams or IP. It is undetectable and there is no defence against it – other than LL outlawing such behaviour.
Yet again, here is something that LL should be preventing.
Yes, as I said on the show…we won a battle but not the war. We need to be very clear that this is about our online privacy and Linden Lab being committed to protecting it.
In a perfect community people would see the immorality in violating others privacy. We do not live in a perfect world and lets face it…sl has its fair share of self righteous people who would rather be right than be a part of a working community.
zfire could have removed the alt reporting himself but he knows that is the only reason many of his customers even bought it. Not like it really works for security. Oh but the rz fans will swear it does. They have to, the alternative is to tell themselves the truth about how they were scammed or that they only bought it so they could see alts. Neither makes them look good so they swear it is the best thing on the grid.
We need to continue standing up for what we believe in!